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Coming Full-Circle with Kelly Gray - An AnybodyListening.net Exclusive
By BRIAN J. HEATON
On Friday, June 1, 2001, Kelly Gray graciously took a break from S2k1 rehearsals for an interview concerning Kelly's history in the Seattle music scene, the evolution of Queensr˙che, and their intriguing new side project, Slave to the System.
BH: First, thanks for taking some time this week with me Kelly. I realize both you and Scott are busy preparing for the show on Saturday night. When was the first time you started to play guitar, and what inspired you to do so?
KG: No problem Brian. I got into playing when I was 12 or maybe a little before that. I had a cousin who played, and I idolized him as a guitar player. His band was rehearsing at our house, and I was like a junior roadie for the band. I just picked up the guitar and started playing one day. I really started playing alot when the first Van Halen record came out, and latched onto that sound. The roadie work for my cousin's gig really helped me learn how to multi-task. I'm always the guy who sets things up and makes sure the sound is right.
BH: What were some of the early influences on your playing style?
KG: Well, Led Zeppelin was really the first band, but then there was UFO as well. Really, it was all the guitar-based guys back then - Blackmore, Deep Purple, Ozzy, Van Halen. Anything that was guitar related. I'm actually a very unbiased listener. I like it all. Genesis, Rush, I could even play the entire 2112 album from beginning to end.
BH: That's a solid list of influences. What was the first song you learned to play from one of them?
KG: I think it was "Stairway to Heaven" from Led Zeppelin. The funny thing about it was that I dabbled in guitar when I got into junior high school. I was in a beginning guitar course, and I failed it. *laughing* 6 months after that, then I was totally into playing. That's where Geoff (Tate) falls into this. Around that time, two of my buddies and I used to go down to Geoff's house all the time and bug him to join our band. Man, that was 23 years ago. It's been a long time.
BH: That's when Myth (Kelly's former band with Geoff) started up right?
KG: Pretty much. Originally, we didn't have any vocals. I believe Geoff was in a band called Paradox at the time, and after some time went by, we had a guy named Brent Young playing with us, which started us doing original tunes. We ended up doing shows with The Mob, which, of course, was Eddie (Jackson), Scott (Rockenfield), Michael (Wilton), Chris (DeGarmo) and Geoff. They were doing cover songs and Geoff liked the fact we were doing originals, so he got together with us for awhile. It was all really weird.
BH: What did you do after Geoff left Myth to start Queensr˙che?
KG: Not much! *laughing* I think there was a couple of years I didn't do much of anything except work and play a bit on my own.
BH: Was that period where you started getting into producing bands?
KG: A lot of it started back when I was younger doing the engineering and roadie stuff for my cousin. Then out of necessity, I started doing my own band's engineering and producing, and then other bands wanted me to do it for them. I ended up having to quit my day job because I had too much producing work to do. One day I did that first Candlebox record, and the whole world blew up. Everyone and their grandma called me after that Candlebox record. People from the Kiss camp, David Coverdale's camp. I never intended to be a record producer. It was never really my passion. I was always a guitar player. But at the end of the day, having that background is a huge benefit.
BH: Is it difficult to separate the artist from the producer?
KG: No, not really. I've been doing both for too long. You develop your instincts about music and learn how to just listen to people. The goal is to come up with something inspiring. That doesn't mean that it has to follow a certain order in order to work. There really isn't a rule in producing. You can't second-guess yourself. You're not going to be able to please everyone. There is a pretty good chance that if you enjoy it, other people will too. Like I said earlier, I am a really unbiased listener, and that helps when I produce other bands.
BH: Speaking of combining your careers as a producer and guitar player, you produced Brother Cane's Wishpool album, and play lead guitar on the track "Crow Flies." How did that come about?
KG: Damon Johnson (lead vocals/guitar for Brother Cane & Slave to the System) and I wrote that song together and we basically did a one-take on it during the recording sessions, and it turned out to be a pretty cool tune.
BH: Since you both have lived and worked in the Seattle area music scene for years, what is your take on the early to mid-nineties "grunge" movement? The general public sees Nirvana as the band that started that trend away from "hair bands", but what was the real scoop around here?
KG: They (Nirvana) weren't really. They were the "pop" version of grunge if anything. I think when it comes to grunge, alot of people think they have heard that type of music, but they really never have. I think pure grunge is not melodic, it is heavy metal punk-type of stuff. It's a different school. Queensr˙che has so much musicality in it, while Nirvana is just pure emotion. It isn't always your ability to play an instrument or sing, it's how honest you are as a musician. People will recognize and appreciate that. Two perfect examples are Bob Dylan and Jim Morrison. Their lyrics are genius, but they aren't the best singers in the world.
BH: How did it feel to become one of the guitarists of Queensr˙che after making most of your living as a producer, and basically being a fan?
KG: It was kind of ironic really. I was doing the Brother Cane record and I came up to do some work for Bob's Garage, a small radio special Queensr˙che was doing. We did "Silent Lucidity" and a few other songs that day, and the guys and I talked about me producing the next Queensr˙che record. After that, Chris got a hold of me about helping me wire some stuff in his home-studio. I didn't know anything about what he was up to at the time, and then I never heard anything from Queensr˙che. Out of the blue, Geoff called me up one day, and told me Chris left. We started talking about guitarists, and I threw this guy's (pointing at Scott Heard) name out there, and Geoff tells me he was thinking about me.
KG: I've known each of these guys before they even knew each other. There is a history to it. The only one I didn't know that long was Michael, but still, I knew him The Mob days. I'm the historical element of Queensr˙che. Geoff and I did some good things back in the day with Myth.
BH: You guys sure did. Wasn't the first original version of "Walk in the Shadows" a Myth song?
KG: Yeah. Actually a few of the classic Queensr˙che tunes were. "Walk in the Shadows," "Take Hold of the Flame," and "No Sanctuary." The lyrics to those were written by Geoff and then he re-translated them into Queensr˙che. I have the original versions of those songs still. I have a lot of things that people would like to get their hands on. A pretty sizable rack of old tapes and mixes. Hey Kelly, you offering? –Ed.
BH: You and Michael are quoted in an earlier issue of "Eye on Queensr˙che" as having "instant chemistry" when you started playing together. Why did it works so well off the bat like that?
KG: I think it has to do with growing up in the same camp. Mine, Michael's, and Chris' guitar playing is not that different from one another. We all listened to Iron Maiden, UFO, Judas Priest, and we all learned the same solos. I think that in itself is the basis for a chemistry that works really well. Writing a song together can be easy when you have a good melody happening. It's cakewalk after that. We (the whole band) come up with ideas and then let Geoff hear it. I am a true believer in letting singers write their own lyrics and letting them dictate the direction of the song. Musicians make music, but it is basically noise until we have lyrics to it.
BH: While we're on the subject of writing songs, before Q2k came out, there were four tracks listed on the web site (www.queensryche.com) that never made it to the album. Whatever happened to "Discipline," "Monologue," "I Howl," and "'Til There Was You?"
KG: The way the writing process works, sometimes we don't get the vibe on where to finish a song. Actually, "Discipline" could probably get resurrected. It is a cool tune, it just wasn't done yet. It's a very "Queensr˙che-ish" song. "Monologue" is something that Eddie wrote. It's a little wacky. *laughing* The vibe is a little too "punkish" for Queensr˙che though. "'Til There Was You" was performed by The Geoff Tate Band at The Catwalk on June 1, 2001 –Ed.
BH: There were very mixed feelings about Q2k from the fans when it was first released. The lyrics were shorter and simpler in comparison to prior releases, and the guitars weren't as prominent. However, the vibe of the album was more reminiscent of older Queensr˙che material because the passion and aggression was back in Geoff's singing, and the music in general. What were you guys trying to achieve when recording it, and what was up with that comment of "putting the ass back in Queensr˙che before the record was released?
KG: Q2k has a healing element on it. Being a little looser on the song writing helped the guys bridge the gap and move forward. It's not the greatest record, but it's a good, solid record. It gave the band some confidence that we were able to do it, as I am sure there is a bit of security lost in the ordeal of losing Chris. It was a good kick in the pants. When I signed on, I was full of energy and ready to go. Having me in the band, there was immediate gratification because we were able to record and produce it with no waiting. On Q2k, a lot of those tracks are directly from that spontaneous writing element. They were written and recorded at the same time. "Breakdown" was actually a one-take from a rehearsal. The main portion of it is live.
The "putting the ass..." comment was actually from Damon Johnson. *laughing* I think there is more "groove" to Q2k than what was done in the past. Hear in the Now Frontier was really Chris' game. That album evolved through a single mind and in my opinion, that approach isn't the greatest thing for Queensr˙che. Historically, when they work together they come up with their best stuff. When you lean on one person too much the music is not as deep. Fans talk about getting back to the roots of the band all the time, but in Queensr˙che's case, which one? All of the albums are different. I never hear the same thing in any of the records. Basically the root is...can each album be different again?
BH: Did you guys come up with the solo for "Falling Down" right off the bat? That was a return to the classic "trade-off" solo of years past.
KG: Michael started writing it, and I produced it. I guided him through and then we decided to double up on it. It felt good. We kept things loose and not so rigid. I would like to continue the trade off solo, and find a way to do some interesting guitar stuff as long as it comes across as unique and doesn't repeat itself. I'm not a big solo guy to be honest. I like good heavy riffs. Geoff and I will disagree on this, but I think solos are best left to those who can do them – like Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, and Eric Clapton. I can bust out some serious chops but I like laying into a riff and making my fingers bleed in chords.
BH: Right before S'99, you guys did an interview with KISW (the Seattle-area's major rock radio station) and debuted "Liquid Sky," "Breakdown," and "Sacred Ground." Those tunes sounded much different on the final version of the album, "Breakdown" in particular, where Geoff's screams and overall vocal aggression were toned down a notch. What was the reason for those changes?
KG: I think that Geoff felt better about it without those screams. Geoff is not really a screamer. I don't think he should be either. He's a strong melody singer. I think that is why he chose to change it on "Breakdown." He doesn't needs to scream to be powerful. That's what's so unique about his voice, he doesn't have to kill himself to get his point across. What sets singers apart is not the ability to sing, but the ability of phrasing. It's that human element of phrasing that "wows" people that the good ones like Morrison, and Dylan have. That is way above the ability to sing. Not saying that Geoff can't sing, Geoff is an amazing singer of course, but his phrasing is the thing. He has that skill, and I trust his judgment.
BH: When you stepped on stage for your first show at Seattle '99 (the fan club performance on January 16, 1999 at NAF Studios), were you a little more "juiced" than usual to play?
KG: No, I was too terrified to be juiced. *laughing* I just didn't want anything to screw up. I've played a lot of shows, but I hadn't in a long time. It went by pretty fast. There is a lot more adrenaline than a normal show though. Seattle '99 was a testing ground, and I think it went along really well.
BH: Do you think the Seattle '99 show gave the band that final push of confidence they needed to continue on after Chris left? Geoff sounded pretty genuine when he asked the fans to let you all know what we thought of the new material.
KG: I think so. When Chris left, there was an empty feeling in all of them. He was a major part of the band, and even though they wouldn't want to say this, the band probably felt they had to prove themselves all over again.
BH: When you played at S'99, the guitars you used were different than what was used on tour. What equipment do you use, and what's the rig like?
KG: I was hoping you wouldn't ask! It changes ALL the time. The guitars I used at the Seattle '99 show are not the ones I bring on tour. They're too valuable. I was waiting for my ESP guitars at the time of S'99. Michael and I have an endorsement contract with ESP.
BH: When you play live, a lot of your solos for the old songs are different than what Chris used to play. Is that a purposeful change to put your own stamp on things?
KG: Yeah, because while I could sit down and learn these things note for note, I have to put my two cents into it. I'm not a robot. Honestly, I don't remember solos all that well. *laughing* I come from a little more blues-based background. I've never been a very static solo writer. I like writing melodies and that kind of stuff.
BH: You guys took a big risk changing the vibe of "Jet City Woman" when you play live. Personally, I found the new arrangement gives the song a nice build-up of intensity once the rest of the band starts playing after the initial single guitar. Was it your idea to do that?
KG: Kind of. I always like when things kick in like that. I really enjoy that sort of dynamic. I do all the heavy stuff in that tune.
BH: Did you sit down and learn all the old Queensr˙che songs note for note when rehearsing for the tour?
KG: I would go through and get a vague idea to it. Michael helped out a lot. There is a lot of independent chording where Michael and Chris are doing different things, and Michael forgot some of it. We actually had to go back and listen to some live recordings because you can't pick it out on the record.
BH: What are some of the older tunes you like doing?
KG: Actually, I love playing "Empire," "The Needle Lies," and "Speak." Those riffs are really hard. I love the old stuff.
BH: Fans always criticize what songs are played at shows. Some want all the older material, some want the more "epic" sort of tunes, etc. How do you guys go about deciding what to play on tour?
KG: Making set lists are really dependent on the energy value of the songs. Sometimes certain tunes just don't have the gas and they don't make you feel good when playing them. Not that they are bad, but you want songs you want to play.
BH: Another question about the live performance I had was about the song "One Life." You handle the monologue for that tune on the record right? On tour though, when you guys played it at the first Las Vegas gigs, it seemed like Geoff did it. Was there a reason for the switch?
KG: Actually, I was sick during those first few shows, so Geoff did it. When we were recording the album I had this idea I showed Geoff and did it for him, and Geoff said he liked it, and when I asked him if he would re-do it, he said "no way, I like that, let's keep it."
BH: One question I've been dying to ask is how and when did you guys decide to play a couple of cover tunes on tour. You did "Bullet the Blue Sky" by U2 and "Join Together" by The Who right?
KG: Yeah, those were the songs. Boy did that become an accident. *laughing* We weren't talking about playing covers, and then Scott started playing "Bullet the Blue Sky" one day at rehearsal, then I started playing, then Mike started, Ed started getting the bass groove on it, and then Geoff strolled out and started singing it, and it sounded great, and we decided to do it. Queensr˙che really never did covers live before except for "Scarborough Fair" and "Gonna Get Close to You," and chances are, not many people had heard of Lisa Dalbello before they read the credits for Rage for Order.
BH: What's ahead in terms of the band's goals for the next few months?
KG: I think right now, Geoff has his solo thing, Michael's dabbling with his, and we've (Kelly, Scott Rockenfield, and Scott Heard) got Slave to the System. As musicians, you're drawn to things that help you hone your craft. This isn't stepping away from Queensr˙che or anything like that. This is what we do. We make music. It helps you develop as a songwriter and emotionally its cool.
BH: So new Queensr˙che material is in the distant future? Fans have heard rumors of a concept record...
KG: We've been writing. I think if we come up with a cool concept, we'll do it. But after you do the first one (Operation: Mindcrime), it takes the impact out of it. You're competing against that record. Pink Floyd did it though, so if Geoff comes up with a great idea for it, it'll be a possibility.
BH: You said that the writing has begun. Do you have any musical vibe for the album yet?
KG: Actually, we have some really cool stuff. It's just a matter of letting everyone finish up our side projects and really focusing on it. I can't comment too much because there is nothing finished. We have about ten things floating around out there, all very different than one another. I think the main focus is to let everyone free themselves up and sit down to find out what the next record is going to be about and how it is going to go. I think it is going to be darker, but whether it will be guitar laden, groove laden, or what the tempo will be like, I'm not sure. Everyone wants it to be heavy. That seething type of feel to it.
BH: Since we're talking about new things, what's the scoop on the new manager, Lars Sorenson?
KG: I've known Lars for a long time. He's worked with me on projects in the early days before Candlebox. For Queensr˙che, because it is a localized family business now, we wanted someone local. Lars is a good guy, and fits perfectly.
BH: My next question is a controversial one, because it deals with a band many people compare with Queensr˙che. That band being Dream Theater. What are your feelings about them?
KG: I understand that fans compare bands, but when I heard their concept disc (Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory), it annoyed me. The main character in the story is named "Nicholas." I mean come on. Nikki – Nicholas, it's borderline plagiarism! I didn't have an opinion of Dream Theater before that.
BH: The first three tracks of that album are similar to the progression of Operation: Mindcrime as well, aren't they – an opening introduction, instrumental, and then an aggressive rocker?
KG: There is this beef I have about people taking advantage of someone else's hard work. That idea was already there. I don't have any respect for people who can't find their own ideas. When we were in Europe, people asked if we were going to tour with them, and I said, "Doesn't hearing that get redundant?" If you listen to Dream Theater, you're listening to Queensr˙che. That stuff really bugs me.
BH: Let's move on to your new side project, Slave to the System. The line-up consists of yourself on guitar, Scott Heard on guitars and vocals, Damon Johnson on guitar and vocals, Scott Rockenfield on the skins, and Roman Glick on bass. How did it all come about?
KG: The seed was planted when we were out on tour with Jesse James Dupree opening for us. I was hanging out with Roman Glick because he was playing with Dupree's band at the time, and we got talking about doing something. I was also talking to Damon Johnson, and it was just conversational thing really. Then one day, I called Damon up and he flew out here with Roman, and conveniently, no one had anything to do. Damon and I were getting together to write anyway, so it just happened. We wrote this thing and we got the vibe. As a producer, I've worked with all these people before. All of us are songwriters in this group. I kind of wanted to make an Eagles type of a band. Not musically, but that type of a group where everyone can sing, everyone can write. A bunch of multi-talented people. It's very inspired and cool.
BH: The name, "Slave to the System" sounds like something Queensr˙che would use as a song title. How did you come up with it?
KG: I pulled the name from a Jeff Buckley song called "The Sky is a Landfill." The line goes like this: "Throw down your shame or become a slave to the system." The band name is also the name of a track on the album.
BH: I heard about that. You've got the "Maiden-esque" three-guitar attack going as well...
KG: Actually it's two with one floating. We have some stuff with three going at once, but not all the time. We don't need to be over orchestrated.
BH: So this whole project was really a great big jam that turned into something special then.
KG: Not really. Everyone came up to my house, and since we're all songwriters, it was more than a just a jam. It was so easy. Progression, melody, lyric, song. Basically we wrote an entire record of music in a week and a half. It was very fast, but Damon and I work together really well. Scotty (Heard) and I are the same way. Scotty has an amazing voice and he can spit a rack of lyrics out that are way cool in half an hour. We use Damon to sing to people, we use Scotty to yell at them.
KG: With SRock playing drums, what more can you say about the man? He's like super glue. He comes and plays and it's amazing.
BH: Can you compare the musical vibe with anything else that is out there?
KG: Sure. It has some old Black Sabbath and Van Halen in it, and of course, Queensr˙che and Brother Cane elements. The music is not all heavy though. Actually it has a song that Damon and I wrote for the Brother Cane Wishpool album, and a tune Roman wrote for Wishpool as well.
BH: So it's basically a solid hard rock/metal "super-group" then?
KG: I think we're groovier than the Iron Maiden metal vibe. We're not really metal. It has that heavy sound, but it isn't over saturated.
KG: We get very heavy, and then we get really mellow. There is some good crossover material. You're looking at a group of unbiased writers who enjoy well done pop music, and then they enjoy the harder stuff. The "slave to the system" concept is basically a tongue-in-cheek jab at the music industry.
BH: So if the record is completed, where does it stand in terms of being circulated?
KG: We are in the process of doing all that now. Everyone in the industry is receiving it quite well. Labels are looking at it now, so it's in the business world now. We're looking at offers.
BH: We were talking about cover tunes before with Queensr˙che. Is it easy for experienced guitarists like yourselves to just listen to another band's tune and just pick it up right away?
KG: It used to be easier when I was a kid, but now but once you been established it becomes more difficult as you're set in your ways as a guitarist.